Thursday, November 21, 2013

Sovereign Citizen v. Scottish Police

He pulls Black's Law Dictionary as his legal authority: what is wrong with this?  Also, You might want to read this before making any comments:
www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25231-comparison-of-scottish-english-law/

Fortunately, no guns were involved!


See also: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/video-cool-cops-witty-banter-2815416

It seems this movement has reached the UK.


I forgot to add this when I originally posted this: Scotland has a different legal system than the rest of Britain: www.scottishlaw.org.uk

19 comments:

  1. So let me see Laci, judging by your tags and previous comments, if someone actually has the gall to come out and speak confidently and knowledgeably about their rights like say, a lawyer, they are a wanker?
    Interesting how lawyer and wanker are seeming to go together. While I'm not a fan of people trolling for a police stop of some kind in hopes of getting a policeman rattled enough to make a mistake, just as bad is a policeman who enjoys using their police powers and use them liberally to make them feel important.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The operative word here is "like", which works for the ignorant. If you answered my question you would know that "like" is not the same as being a lawyer.

      Your comment is why I usually don't bother reading or responding to questions since I am dealing with truly ignorant people who enjoy being ignorant. They are not willing to learn, but are more willing to spend loads of time writing long winded pieces of BS.

      I do not have the time to try an educate people who are truly and willfully ignorant.

      Blacks Law Dictionary is not a legal authority in any jurisdiction.

      So, while he sounds "like a lawyer"--this person is merely spewing bullshit.

      Which anyone with a shred of legal knowledge knows.

      I used to say that a trained chimp could be a lawyer (well, one could be if it passed the bar), but people like you continue to remind me that is not correct.

      The actual practise of law requires the knowledge of legal practise--not just picking up a book and saying "this is the law".

      Delete
    2. "The actual practise of law requires the knowledge of legal practise--not just picking up a book and saying "this is the law"."

      Laci, I must apologise for my comment, I didn't see the link between the two videos, so I didn't get a chance to see the article itself. I merely relied on your description and assumed is was another video similar to the many who troll looking for an officer to overreact. They do get old and I tend not to watch them.

      Delete
  2. Tell me Laci,

    What is worse, the people in the videos above demanding their rights? Or perhaps this officer abusing his power?

    http://www.policemag.com/videos/channel/weapons/2011/07/ohio-officer-threatens-ccw-holder.aspx

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The "what's worse?" response is pretty weak.

      Delete
    2. Well, if they were actually "demanding his rights" or "abusing their power" you might have a point.

      Let me respond by asking:

      Is a police chief who dislikes a certain part of the population he was sworn to protect and refuses to enforce the laws he was sworn to enforce (whether he agrees with them or not) a tyrant or a patriot?

      Is he actually keeping his oath as well?

      Anyway, as for this video--put yourself in the position of the cop: you have stopped someone who is carrying a weapon. There are two sides of a story, but I believe that the police officer actually had some basis to stop the driver--not that I could find it in the amount of "pro-gun" comments about this video.

      Despite the mythology: not everyone who has a concealed carry permit is a stellar citizen. So, what if he had did have a prostitute and a pimp in his car?

      Or as the officer says "for you to have this, you've got to use some damned sense"

      Also, don't confuse right and ability?

      Anyway, Officer Daniel Harless went through an arbitration hearing, which is a judicial process (do you know anything about law???) and was found to not be culpable.

      If a people can be found not guilty under a legal process and carry a gun, then Officer Daniel Harless can be found not guilty as well.

      http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2961596/posts

      Delete
    3. OK, ssgmarkcr, which would you prefer "armed citizens" who shoot innocent people and go free, or cops who harass criminals, get charged, and lose their jobs.

      Who do you call when you have a problem? Or don't you want to bother with a system you don't understand?

      Delete
    4. OK, ssgmarkcr, you are the cop in this situation--what would you do?

      THE TRAFFIC STOP

      Harless and his partner, patrolman Mark Diels, were working northwest Canton on June 8 when they spotted Bartlett’s gold Pontiac stopped in the 100 block of Newton Avenue NW around 1:38 a.m.

      The area is known for prostitution and drug trafficking. A woman was standing outside Bartlett’s car. A third person was in the back seat.

      The police ordered the rear passenger to get out and place his hands on the car roof. Harless questioned the man and the woman while Diels climbed in the rear seat. Bartlett sat quietly behind the wheel, according to an enhanced audio version of the recording posted by the gun group.

      Read more: http://www.cantonrep.com/x121489646/Canton-officer-under-investigation-after-concealed-carry-arrest#ixzz2lNW4SEYd

      Delete
    5. SO, ssgmarkcr, which is worse in your opinion:

      A police officer who harasses someone he finds with a gun in a known drug area at 1.38 AM, yet is disciplined by his department

      Or

      An "armed citizen" who shoots an unarmed person without any real reason other than the "armed citizen" claims he was afraid and is found not guilty (if even charged)?

      Delete
    6. I forgot to add that when you introduce a photograph or video as evidence in court you need to provide a foundation for that video or photograph and say why it is relevant.

      There is a big difference between harassing someone in a known drug area at 1.38 AM as opposed to a residential area at noon.

      And while I probably hate rogue cops more than you do--I do not find this video to be as shocking as you do.

      In fact, I think you help make my point that the "pro-gun" position makes it easier for criminals and those who shouldn't own guns to have access to them.

      In short, if you have no problem with people carrying guns in drug areas and the police being able to verity whether they are actually able to carry (as opposed to breaking the law)--I don't really have much hope for your intelligence.

      I would also add that you seem to be someone who doesn't really question what you are told, ssgmarkcr.

      I'll get back to you when you show that you can actually think for yourself.

      Delete
    7. Laci,
      In regards of you trying to justify the officer's behavior by putting it in the context of him being in a high crime area, are you suggesting that its ok to threaten to kill someone who is in that area? And perhaps we should add a quote from the officer's boss that was in the same article you cited,

      “I think it’s important for citizens to understand that the behavior demonstrated on the video is wholly unacceptable, and it violates many of our rules, our regulations and standards we demand of our officers,” Police Chief Dean McKimm said in response."

      The person with the carry permit made several attempts to inform the officer and was repeatedly told to shut up, then, when the officer finally sees him holding his carry permit out in plain sight, he goes off on the resulting rant where he threatens him with death.

      Interestingly, Officer Harless took his being fired and got his discharge for cause recinded because PTSD made him do it.

      HARLESS TIMELINE

      June 8, 2011: Canton Police Patrolman Daniel Harless, a 15-year veteran, screams at and threatens to shoot a driver pulled over in an area known for prostitution and drugs.

      July 2011: A video of the incident, captured by police cruiser, goes viral after its posted on the Internet by Ohioans for Concealed Carry. The city reviews other cruiser videos where Harless becomes angry.

      Nov. 10, 2011: A judge throws out the criminal charge against the driver in the June 8 incident, William Bartlett.

      Jan. 10: Harless is fired by the city. He later appeals.

      Wednesday: City releases arbitrator’s ruling giving Harless his job back if he gets medical clearance.
      http://www.cantonrep.com/x2105837634/Fired-Canton-officer-Daniel-Harless-wins-back-his-job/?tag=2

      As you can see, the officer's behavior likely resulted in any charges being dropped. And it also encourages the "don't snitch" mentality that does a disservice to both conscientious police officers and the public as a whole.
      I often comment on this to deploying soldiers in regards to interacting with COBs or Civilians On the Battlefield. That if being unprofessional causes a civilian to NOT report an IED they see, then the enemy has won.

      An example of a more professional officer that definitely made me smile,
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9wahCTz08

      Delete
  3. Laci, since you see yourself as so much better than the rest of us, why do you "grace" us with your presence?

    The reality, of course, is that we see through your bullshit, as it's always the same pile, and it's spread thin.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course, Greg, who likes to think he is in someway my intellectual; equal comes up with something he would like to think is an insult to me.

      Of course, his "insult" is not backed up by any substance.

      There is a lot more to this than ssgmarkcr or Greg can comprehend..

      I'm not sure where ssgmarkcr gets the idea that I am "suggesting that its ok to threaten to kill someone who is in that area". I am merely pointing out that there is more than one way to interpret this video.

      Anyway, What would YOU do if someone was outside YOUR house at 1.38AM? Would you shoot that person?

      I would also add something which I didn't since it was a given to me, but something which is out of the ken of ssgmarkcr or Greg:

      Scotland has a different legal system than the rest of Britain:
      www.scottishlaw.org.uk

      A final response to Greg, is that if anyone is full of Bullshit and pretension--it's him.

      He should back up his statement with some sort of fact, which he usually doesn't. In fact, it seems he is actually engaging in some self-criticism, but trying to project onto me.

      As for, ssgmarkcr's little cut and paste, let's say there's a bit more legal knowledge required to understand what actually happened (e.g., the difference in burden of proof involved in criminal v. civil cases) than just cutting and pasting demonstrates.

      I am sure that is something which ssgmarkcr or Greg cannot comprehend from the quality of their comments and criticism of me.

      Anyway, nice try to deflect the issue here, but you two once again fail to show that you understand what is going on.

      Delete
    2. I should add that I usually don't "grace" you with my presnce, but ssgmarkcr's failure to get the basic gist of this post led to my response. I'm back because I am reposting this to Penigma.

      I also wanted to add the comment about the Scottish legal system being different from the Common law system.

      So it doesn't appear that I actually "lack substance" as much as Greg does because both Greg and ssgmarkcr were unaware of this aspect of the post.

      Delete
    3. No, Laci, I simply don't care. Scottish law isn't relevant to our discussion here about gun control. It is interesting in itself, but I have other things to do and don't have time to watch twenty minutes of some guy arguing with a cop.

      It's the equivalent of me posting an article about Gilgamesh entering the Country of the Living and then being snarky if you don't immediately offer a knowledgable comment. Of course, Mikeb allows you to post all manner of off-topic articles, but that doesn't make them more relevant.

      Delete
    4. It is relevant to see what other countries are doing to lesson gun deaths. The idea that Americans have all the correct answers and cannot learn from other people, shows your lack of intelligence, which is obvious in every comment you make.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous, if you're going to be snide, it helps to spell things correctly. The word you were looking for is lessen.

      Delete
    6. The sign of a lying position, point out spelling errors.

      Delete
  4. You might want to read this before making any more idiotic comments:
    www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25231-comparison-of-scottish-english-law/

    Of course, ignorant comments are pretty much what I have come to expect from Greg and ssgmarkcr.

    ReplyDelete